There, I said it.
Luckily, Minmay-hate seems to be on the wane, but it’s still way more prevalent than it should be. Now, I can understand the impetus: Misa is the one that everyone wants Hikaru to hook up with, and Minmay’s the one standing in the way of that happening.
Except that she’s not. Or at least, she’s not doing it consciously or deliberately.
The moment between Hikaru and Minmay of course occurs in Episode 4, when they’re trapped in an unused part of the Macross. As time goes on, they eventually think they’re going to die and stage a mock-wedding so that Minmay can at least somewhat fulfill her dream of being a bride. They ALMOST kiss, but a falling dud warhead breaks the ceiling, which leads to them being rescued. At this point, it’s clear that Hikaru REALLY wants to get into Minmay’s pants, but doesn’t quite know how to go about it. Me, I would say that he had his only chance when they were trapped, and the moment has gone and passed him by. And yet, he hangs on to that memory and doesn’t let inconvenient things like “reality” get in his way.
From Episode 5 on, it should be clear to anyone who ISN’T Hikaru that Minmay just doesn’t like him “that way.” She’s friendly and nice, but not especially romantic or flirty, and she continually refers to him as “just a friend.” Now this seems to bother a lot of guys, but I’m not sure why. The only reason I can think of is that they’re identifying pretty closely with Hikaru and HIS romantic failure feels like THEIR romantic failure.
So, yeah. Already, the only moment of romantic tension between them is when they both think they’re going to die, and are lonely and scared. Not really the best start to a long-term relationship. And once things are back to normal, she doesn’t lead him on at all. Not only that, but the book “My Fair Minmay” makes it clear that she’s one of the most popular girls at her school, and that she gets asked out an awful lot, and dates pretty frequently. Which of course she does. You don’t get to win the Miss Macross Contest (especially against a famous actress) by being someone nobody’s ever met or heard of.
And then, yes, the Miss Macross Contest happens a quarter of the way through the series, and the idea of a Hikaru/Minmay romance is sealed shut pretty much for good. After this point, she’s too busy and rarely has time to see Hikaru. Pretty much the only times they do see each other are Episode 15 (when he flies her back to Yokohama) and Episode 18 (when she visits him in the hospital) and in both instances, her two-hours-of-sleep-per-night schedule catches up with her and she falls asleep. Or else Hikaru really IS just that boring, which is always a possibility.
And once Kaifun is on board the ship, then Minmay has her romantic interest for most of the rest of the series. It’s so stunningly obvious that even Hikaru should be able to see it, but no… he doubles down on his infatuation by dedicating his military service to protect Minmay. It doesn’t last long, though, since he comes across Kaifun kissing her, which (again) really shouldn’t be as much of a surprise as it is.
And yeah, all of this changes once we get to the post-war episodes. Even then, though, Minmay is mostly blameless. Hikaru is the one treating Misa like a consolation prize, and he never ever tells Minmay anything about her. As far as Minmay’s knows, Hikaru is single and available, and he does nothing to correct that impression. It isn’t HER fault that he’s not telling her anything.
But anyway, my point here is that pretty much from the beginning, Hikaru’s interest in Minmay is really formed entirely in his imagination. If Minmay knew about it, I’m sure she would have rejected him early on, but he never tells her. And he keeps hanging on to that one moment in Episode 4. For YEARS. Seriously, man… MOVE ON! Again, none of this is Minmay’s fault or responsibility. The entire romance is happening inside Hikaru’s head. So yes, if you hate Minmay for it, you are an awful person. You’re blaming her for his stupidity. Or else you’re blaming her because she’s not sufficiently attracted to Hikaru to go out with him. So yeah, she never does anything to deserve your hate, so put it on Hikaru, where it belongs.
(Of course, if you’re a Robotech fan, then it’s different, since the rewriting there consistently makes Minmei stupid, annoying, selfish, and thoroughly dislikable, with a horrible “hit” song about how great it is to be her. Although that should, by all rights, make you hate “Rick” even MORE for never realizing how awful she is.)
(FURTHER READING ON THIS TOPIC: Episode 6, Point 6 and Episode 19, Point 9.)
Gubaba Blog 
This is a really nice write-up overall, but I have to disagree with one part. If they expected people to know that Minmay was popular at school, they should include that in the series and not just a book.
Also, I definitely get the feeling that the Minmay hate is stronger in the west than in Japan. I was listening to a Japanese podcast episode about DYRL about a year ago, and quite a few of the listener comments were people saying they actually liked Minmay.
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The west shouldn’t matter. Just like people crow about the garbage Disney does to its “Force Awakens” posters and editing out Brian Boydega and people sayin’ the PRC can go to hell for that. China shouldn’t matter. Likewise, I feel like weebs hating Minmay need to go take a hike in hell.
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Hey Gubaba, this is a great analysis and really shines a light on that ugly misogyny that tends to hide in the fandom. The cool thing about the story was the complexities of the characters and their relationships!
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I agree that it was Hikaru’s fault for not just wising up and telling her he had no interest in being friend-zoned. She acts all surprised when he finally “confesses” but I think her using him for attention/validation when it suits HER needs is what riles up the Western guys who definitely see that behavior in real life. You hit the nail on the head with that one. Guys are projecting their own experiences on to this couple.
I’m sure it’s different in Japan though. A Western audience sees her actions and thinks “oh come on, she KNOWS how he feels but she’s using him anyway!” whereas a Japanese audience probably thinks she really thought they were just friends. Plus when he decides to just “love her from afar” even though he can’t have her, I think that’s also a very Japanese sentiment.
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I agree with the points above regarding Minmay and Hikaru’s romance plot, but I hardly think that Hikaru being an idiot absolves Minmay of being a terrible person.
Re watching the show now (early on) and what’s really bugging me is how Minmay pushes Hikaru into becoming a fighter pilot because she appears to find the idea romantic in some way. (as in romanticism, not romance) She completely ignores Hikaru’s fears and the fact that this is a lethal career option. She’s excited about his first mission, and ignoring the possibility that he might die.
No one in the world could possibly be ignorant to the danger to a soldier of going into battle so how could she possibly be excited about sending her friend to his possible death? Explaining it with faith in Hikaru’s skill is really a stretch as she has no way of evaluating his skill, and more to the point, so far in the series every time he’s gotten into a cockpit the plane has crashed. This whole thing happens earlier in the show when military personnel levels are still OK, well before the ‘we need every person we can’ starts happening. So I can only assign to Minmay’s behavior a kind of selfish romantic delusion that could well have been lethal for Hikaru.
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As I said back when I was discussing Episode 6: “On the one hand, there’s Hikaru’s view of the situation: that he’s going off to battle and might possibly die, and Minmay is being really insensitive and naive about it. On the other hand, it may be that Minmay has a clearer grasp of how good a pilot he is than he does, and is trying to boost his confidence.”
So yeah, I think there’s a positive way to read her actions, and it’s not far-fetched at all. And Hikaru IS a magnificent pilot, and Minmay knows that.
Also, Focker was pushing for Hikaru to be a fighter pilot, too, but no one calls HIM manipulative about it…
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There is a gendered element to criticism of Minmay, I agree.
But the point I’m making is that she really _doesnt_ know that he’s a great fighter pilot, and yeah, neither does Focker. You can say she’s being insensitive and naive, but naivety at such a level would really go beyond the suspension of disbelief.
So far in the show we’ve seen Hikaru:
1) Steal a confidential military aircraft. 2) Put it in an unrecoverable spin and then crash it 3) Not even be able to walk around in it 4) Freeze and panic in combat, putting his and Minmay’s life in danger 5) Recklessly launch his racing plane when there’s clearly a battle happening, and then go on to crash his own aircraft. 6) Frequently express fear and a desire not to fight.
Focker might know he’s a good stuntplane pilot, but Focker doesn’t know if he’s capable of being a soldier. A capability Hikaru repeatedly fails to demonstrate at to this point in the show. So yeah, Focker is full of it as well.
I feel it’s irrelevant that Hikaru proves to be a great pilot later on as based on what we’ve seen at the time he looks terrible.
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Hey, flying the fanliner in space (and getting it back to the Macross) is nothing to sneeze at!
And I’m not saying Minmay is insensitive and naive… Far from it. That’s how Hijaru is viewing her. I’m saying that she knows that Hikaru loves flying (it seems virtually all he talked about in Ep.4. That, and how much he idolizes Focker) and that he’s very good at it. We also know that she talked to Focker about Hikaru’s depressed mood, and it’s only AFTER that that she starts pushing Hikaru to be a fighter pilot.
That is, my impression is that having Hikaru become a fighter pilot was probably Focker’s idea, and Minmay thought it was a good one and went along with it. I don’t see that she has a romantic notion about fighter planes, really… I think she just knows that flying makes Hikaru happy, so she wants him to fly.
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OK, fair. I can see that interpretation.
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Ok… Here comes what I hope will be some constructive criticism.
First of all, I don’t hate Minmay. I actually felt very sad for her when everything ended in Macross Flashback 2012 and she seemed to be left to be forever alone, because now that she is famous, she will have a lot of fans but none of them will be like Hikaru, who loved her before she was famous. What I mean with this is that the question that is left hanging is whether Minmay will ever find true love in her life. We may never know because it’s the end of the series. And watching the last minutes of Macross Flashback thinking that, makes me feel very sorry for her. The character developement in Macrosss is awesome. Minmay used to be an immature teenager, and by Macross Flashback she is a very mature woman that has decided to not give up and keep singing in spite of all the disgrace that has happened. Yes, disgrace because all the personages had gone through an apocalyptical almost complete destruction of Earth!
However, saying that everything was within Hikaru’s mind is something I don’t agree with. Going back to the first episodes (1 to 5) you see that if fans had something against her is because Hikaru had risked his life, he had put himself in the line for her, he risked his skin for her and he was with her till the end when they were trapped. Trying to at least give her some hope in such a desperate situation. And how she paid back? In an immature way, Which is forgivable since after all she was just a teenager. She didn’t seem to value what he had done for her, and in Robotech that was shown up to eleven, making a lot of fans hate Minmay. But character developement marched on. Sure, since Hikaru joined the army and Minmay started becoming a star, they barely had enough time to talk, and that was the very reason they couldn’t stay togheter in the end. They had chosen lifestyles that took them too far from one another. They barely had time. So, they went out once in a somewhat romantic date in the park where they took themselves a picture, but hey! that’s something! And taking your statement, since she was so beautiful that she won the Miss Macross contest, she must have been asked out a lot. So you can’t say that “it was obvious that she didn’t like him that way”. From all the people, at least she gave Hikaru a chance. Some of her time. At least she gave him that, and it was the start of a romance that could have ended well in other circumstances. But when she became famous and he became a pilot, well they couldn’t see each other much and they were both so busy and tired. Heck! Get real! He was in the hospital! Minmay was really tired, her job is shown to be hectic (Act for a movie, sing the music for said movie, etc.) ! Minmay’s job as a star was exhausting! And she was visting him at the hospital, with the producers searching for her to continue working! So, saying that Hikaru could be boring is a possibility is an insult. Come on, do you hate Hikaru or something?
The protagonist is usually the one the audience idetifies with, and Hikaru isn’t the exception, so that’s quite the situation here. It’s frustrating for him and the audience feels it a lot!
But enough of this. I don’t blame Minmay for all that. It’s quite sad to see how badly things start to go for her when Kaifun appears. As for Kaifun, that guy was a disgrace. All his pacifist speech was just hiding his hate for the army people. In the kung fu dandy episode we can clearly see he can use violence whenever he feels it’s right. He was just an alcoholic with a bad attitude, and who knows if when he was drunk he tried to do something else than just kissing Minmay.
Oh… well. Sorry for the wall of text but I really wanted to say all this about this topic.
See ya and God Bless you.
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I do like to say on this topic.
If the life of the star is not easy, being a soldier – A FIGHTER PILOT ON TOP OF IT ALL – is a whole level of difficulty altogether. I do feel sad since Macross did not become HikaruxMinmay, since Hikaru was head over heels over Minmay that when he was asking himself why he was asking why he was fighting in the first place, he turned Minmay as his motivation to fight.
And remember, he doesn’t fight out there and lives no casualty on his trail. Even battle hardened veterans still remembers the faces of the person they killed all the way to their last breath of air.
As a soldier, that is some dedication he has there. That’s why I feel sad when it didn’t turned out that way.
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It’s the difference between his life as a pilot vs her life as a star that eventually puts an end to their relationship. At the beginning they were just a couple of young kids (what was Hikaru’s age at the time anyway) without the weight of the respective responsibilities they got later. Their respective lives pulled them in different directions, to the point where Misa would have more in common with Hikaru, more understanding of what his life was like.
Of course, these days Hikaru would have just ended up with a “harem” with Misa, Minmay and possibly Claudia.
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Lynn Minmay – “My Boyfriend is a Pilot”
So, she isn’t blameless. Just immature.
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How do you figure?
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I’m still watching the first series (yeah, after 30-plus years I’m actually watching it), and my impression has been that Minmay didn’t really understand her feelings for Hikaru. Chalk it up to youth and inexperience, and being thrust into stardom didn’t give her time to think much on it. There was the time when the four captives made it back to Macross, and Minmay gave Hikaru a kiss on stage, I think it was entirely sincere on her part, and she had forgotten for a moment her stardom and the multitude of jealous fans. It was when the crowd reacted so poorly she realized she had to make it look like a welcoming gesture and kissed the other two males.
Perhaps Minmay naively thought Hikaru would always be there for her, and she didn’t have to decide what she wanted right then. But Hikaru has had to “grow up” a lot faster, has had to take on much more personal responsibility, and Misa will have more in common with him. I actually feel a little sorry for Minmay in that she matures enough to recognize her feelings, it will have been too late. But I suppose that makes it all the more like real-life then.
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Again, I disagree. I see no evidence of any feelings Minmay had for Hikaru, except liking him as a friend.
Except, y’know, when they thought they were going to die together. Which is a pretty big extenuating circumstance.
If there are any scenes in particular where you think she DOES show romantic interest in him, though, I’d be curious to know what they are.
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(And I’m glad you’re watching the show! It’s cool, isn’t it?)
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One particular place I saw it was when Hikaru says he may die in the next battle, and finally outright says he loved her, she seems to have an “Oh s**t” moment, and thinks she’s just made a big mistake. Not that she’s going to outright declare her love, but she ‘s considering it. The interesting point in the scene is Hikaru’s use of the past tense, “loved”.
As for the show in general, it often breaks a lot of the usual conventions, such as gender roles and the idea that the “good guys” come out of the battle relatively unscathed, or at least can recover in short order. Here we have a large-scale devastation of the earth (without a CosmicDNA to fix it). Of course, when they momentarily fall back into the old tropes, it can be quite glaring (such as Max trying to get Milia to make coffee). Right now I’m at Episode 27.
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You see no evidence of Minmay liking Hikaru? The whole “my boyfriend is a pilot” song is supposed to be a clue for the audience of that! If you can’t see that, then it’s just your opinion! Now of course, nowadays a girl can hang out with a guy and date him without having any love feelings, just for fun. I think that didn’t use to be that way back in the days Macross was created. Now of course there’s also the fact that even if Minmay liked Hikaru, she wasn’t thinking about having an engagement relationship, she was still not in that stage of her life, she was very young and she wanted to succeed as a star, but she wasn’t the flamboyant superficial selfish girl we get portrayed in Robotech with the lyrics of the “My time to be a star” song, No. “My boyfriend is a piloy” is completely different from that. It’s just the sincere love of a teenager newborn star who dreams to have a life story that is just like the fairy tales (don’t forget Minmay’s “Cinderella” song) and gets involved in a very tragic space war that almost costs humankind existence, not noticing her love for Hikaru is much deeper than she realizes, until it’s too late for her. Hikaru could have died anyways, just like his friends died.
The very lyrics of the “My boyfriend is a pilot” hint the audience the other side of the story: how being a pilot soldier kept Hikaru away from Minmay and how it ultimately meant a lifestyle that separated him from her.
Now I think I remember an entry where you say
“Hikaru really is the worst, isn’t he?”
Now I really think you really hate Hikaru. If you hate him you are a horrible person? Maybe yes, maybe no.
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I would hope you’ve read all the translations I’ve posted… Specifically “My Fair Minmay”: if Minmay is Hikaru’s girfriend, why is she dating other guys?
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Well well, I have read your reviews and some articles, but certainly I have not read everything you have translated yet.
I never thought any other novels or books or whatever material would twist the original Macros series plot as much as showing Minmay dating other guys in a romantic way.
Denying that Minmay ever even liked Hikaru also means denying one of the major plot points in Macross: The Love Triangle. Sure Minmay was had to be asked out a lot because she was supposed to be very popular to win the miss macross contest, and maybe she even accepted to give a chance to someone else who wasn’t Hikaru perhaps because their relationship was still of friendship at that stage of the story or perhaps Minmay was dissapointed by anything Hikaru did at that moment or whatever.
However what matters to me is what happens in the last episodes of Macross (yeah the “marry me” line is only there in Robotech, but still) Minmay is shown looking for Hikaru (heck! She even stayed at his place!) If she didn’t at least like him or care about him, then what was he for her? Merely a tool? A thing to be used whenever she had no one to help her? I don’t think Minmay would be that kind of person.
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She kissed him & it’s implied they spent Christmas together?
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not sure if you care about replies on this year old post but
its not the romance plot tumor that makes me hate her (in fact i blame rick for the entire love triangle mess) its her over inflated ego just look at episode 15 where she is whining about wanting ot be a movie star to her parents who thought she was dead
and when her cousin started ripping in to rick for no reason she stood there with a vapid expression on her face
and dont say its because he is her cousin the above point make sit clear family means nothing to her
crap like this is why i dont like her
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Well, as I said, she’s made pretty awful in Robotech. In the original, she’s nowhere near as selfish or childish.
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so your saying in macross she didnt care more abieng a star than her parents after seeing them for the first itme in aover a year?
did she defend hikaru after her cousin verbally attacked him?
did she still distance her self from him after the 2 got saved from the lower deck?
did she still whine about getting a birthday present ?
did conversations still be dominated by things about her?
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Well, you’re framing your questions in a way to make her look bad. For the scene when she’s arguing with her parents, the big issue is that they don’t believe her, and she protests, “But I’m NOT lying!” which gets changed in Robotech to “I WANNA BE A MOVIE STAR!” In Macross, she understands her role as an inspiration to the people aboard the ship, so yes, her “family” of 56,000 refugees is more important to her than her parents are. Misa makes the same decision in that episode, refusing to talk to her father before going back to the Macross.
For your second question, it’s hard to tell. When she introduces Hikaru to Kaifun, she calls him by his rank. Kaifun says, “Soldiers are expected to help civilians.” Minmay looked shocked, and immediately defends Hikaru, saying that Hikaru wasn’t a soldier when he saved her life. Kaifun says “So what’s so great about the military?” and then the scene cuts to Misa and Global. When it cuts back to Hikaru and Minmay, everyone’s sitting around the table and Kaifun’s convincing Minmay’s parents that she should go back to the Macross. So we don’t know what Minmay said (if anything) in defense of Hikaru. But in the bit of the “verbal assault” (which seems to me to be more dismissive than an outright attack), yes, she did defend him.
For your third question, that’s kind of the whole point of my article. Minmay’s not in love with Hikaru, and doesn’t know that he’s smitten with her. You might call it “distancing” herself from him, I call it getting back to work and school. And hey, he’s living at the restaurant, so she’s definitely not cutting him off. He’s a friend.
For the fourth question, does she give Hikaru a bit of a hard time for not bringing a present? Yes. Does she “whine”? No.
For the fifth question, that’s a definite “no,” unless people ask about how she’s doing. And none of her songs are about how it’s her time to be a star and isn’t that the greatest thing ever?
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I actually think Minmay *did* ultimately love Hikaru, but by the time the possibility occurred to her, it was already too late for her. Never watched the Robotech dub, only watching SDF Macross for the first time this year, and I see Minmay as a “lost child”, swept up into fame that quickly got out of her control. Had there been family, or some other adult there to look after her personal well-being from the start, it could have been different. In our own world I’d have expected her to experience a Lindsay Lohan or Amanda Bynes type of meltdown within a few years. In the SDF world, her role as a sort of one-woman USO tour probably offset that .
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ok then still dont like her and that dont make me a horrible person but if makes you feel better i dont really like rick either
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Fair enough. All I ask is that you stop making up scenes, like Kaifun verbally assaulting Hikaru and Minmay not saying anything. That never happened in the show.
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i asked a question as ive never seen basic macross so i legit asked if those scenes played out the same in macross
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I just wanted to point out something about Kainfun’s “verbal assault” and it is that in Robotech he was more harsh than in Macross. So in my memory he indeed verbally assaulted Hikaru at least in Robotech, while in Macross it wasn’t as bad as a “verbal assault” but he was still talking him down with a lot of arrogance and hatred towards anything that had something to do with the military.
Now I wouldn’t blame MInmay for being shocked and not knowing what to say, knowing the kind of person Kainfun is.(remember Kung Fu Dandy) You know the way he manipulated her when he was his manager to do what he wanted, to the point of breaking her so much she didn’t want to sing anymore!
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Brian Wood is definitely a horrible person. That’s all I have to say.
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Min may was a battleblocker. Everytime she opens her mouth the Zentraedi don’t want to fight.
Why are we watching a spacewar anyway? To see mecha combat of course.
There’s a reason to hate her right there.
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That’s a hell of a thing to say the day after the finish of one of the greatest Macross musical events ever.
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As I understand it, SDF Macross was initially meant as a spoof. Given that the odd concept of “music stops war” fits the storyline. It’s only that the show took a more “self-serious” tone later. (this is just what I’ve read someplace, I could be misremembering it)
Remember that “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” was originally meant as a simultaneous spoof on four different genres. I just wonder what were the particular shows SDF Macross was specifically meant to spoof.
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That’s… a little garbled. The whole story is in, of all place, Robotech Art 1. Studio Nue, who had earned a reputation throughout the ‘70s for their plausible and cool spaceship and mecha designs, decided that instead of designing things for other people’s works, the wanted to make their own show. They created a hard SF series called “Genocidas,” but nobody wanted to fund it. So they decided to create a more commercial series that would be an easier sell and THEN, once they made that, they could more easily find funding for Genocidas.
They hashed out the story for “Battle City Megaroad” in one night. They did synopses and designs and started looking for sponsors. They found a company, the Wiz Corporation, that was willing to fund it… but soon, Wiz wanted them to turn it into a big parody of science fiction. Studio Nue wanted to have humor in the show, but they didn’t want it to be a spoof, especially since they thought the designs they’d made were very promising. They made some gestures towards making it a comedy series (including having the female captain of the Megaroad have an affair with an alien guy… which of course eventually became the Max and Milia plotline), but weren’t happy about it.
However, before it got too far, Wiz Corporation went out of business. Studio Nue had to find new funding, but they were no longer constrained by Wiz’s demands.
Minmay didn’t become a character for a while, and at first, she just had a minor role as the delivery girl at the Chinese restaurant in the town. It wasn’t until VERY late in the planning that, inspired by Mikimoto’s love of singer Seiko Matsuda, she was transformed into a pop idol who saved humanity.
Kawamori, at his Anime Expo panel a few years ago, claimed that the “stopping wars through music” thing was his idea, inspired heavily by stories about the WWII-era song, “Lili Marlene.” He said that he thought that if the big space conflict was just decided through a big battle, then it’d be no different than Star Wars, and he wanted a more original and creative resolution to the war. He also said that the rest of the writing staff didn’t like the idea at first.
Sorry for being long-winded, but setting everything in order takes a while. I should probably write a blog post about it, shouldn’t I? 🙂
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The “Music stops war” is the most bloody original thing about this campy show. And everything is a spoof. Those old westerns with a priest and a young girl about to get married riding with a scrappy old Cowboy played by John Wayne. Those are *unintentionally* campy. They’re campy because they’re literally camping too. Hurrrrrrr
So look at Fifth Element. You’ve got obvious visual nods to Princess Leia, Star Destroyers, the priest as Ben Kenobi… it’s a space farce. But was Star Wars itself so much less farcical? I mean. It WAS, but only because unlike Les Cage Aux Folles, or “The Birdcage” it didn’t have a series of assholes entering and exiting doors.
Macross does over-the-top nods to Harlock, Yamato, and other predecessor series– the resemblance of the Prometheus to Yamato alone should have been a dead giveaway. But yeah– it’s a great blueprint for science fiction series. If you can’t have a “hooker with a heart of gold” or “fortune teller” cliche in there somewhere, why not have the hottest pop star barely being 18 years old & outselling Michael Jackson? (per capita, heh heh heh)
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…singer Seiko Matsuda…
Ah, another long-standing J-Pop star I hadn’t heard of yet (following along with Mariya Takeyuchi and Chisato Moritaka). Can’t quite count Meiko Nakahara in that vein, since she (apparently) left Japan and changed her name.
Granted, had I been in Japan at the time (I actually thought Europe was my destination at the time) I would have been listening more to “The Plastics” or YMO/Ryuichi Sakamoto rather than City Pop (well, I still do).
Interesting analysis from YouTube commentator Gigguk on how through shows like Macross how “mecha” shows ultimately gave birth to “idol” shows.
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Seiko was THE star in the ‘80s, often compared to Madonna in how popular she was. And I *KNOW* I’ve mentioned her quite a few times in my Macross Rewatch.
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Idol shows already existed… maybe not in the same form as today, but they certainly existed before Macross. The first was Sasurai no Taiyou in 1971, which ran for 26 episodes. This Gigguk guy didn’t do his research, it seems.
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(spoilers) I just finished watching the movie. Seeing Hikaru full of personality when he’s enjoying himself with Minmay, and then becoming devoid of any real personality when he flipflops to Misa in under a month after they bond over their self-pitying, was honestly pathetic. I almost regretted watching any of the original Macross but Minmay really just carries the plot of the film (and basically the series) single-handedly, so I’m very polarized.
It boggles my mind how anyone could find issue with Minmay when Misa is literally whining or self-pitying for like 90% of her screen time in both the series and the movie. I’ve never seen such an intolerably whiny and self-pitying character in any anime I’ve seen to date, and who doesn’t actually develop in character to stop being whiny and self-pitying.
The original iconic queen who sets the theme of singing for every Macross series, vs self-pitying loser who can’t do anything without whining unless she has a guy to obsess over. How this was ever a question at all is beyond me. The movie is so full of energy when it focuses on Minmay, and it just just slowly slogs through self-pitying when it focuses on Misa. What a waste of potential.
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Watching the original series for the first time in my life, I don’t get where and when you saw Misa being self-pity at all. I only saw a person that slowly develops an affection towards Hikaru, but she costantly see her feelings refused by a dick because 1) he’s so stupid he can’t even understand that a woman loves him even after inviting her to his home to do (I presume) some “culture” 2) he’s even more stupid because he keeps on idealizing a pop idol that clearly doesn’t love him until the last episodes just because they originally talked about marrying because they thought they were gonna die. Also, the theme of the series may be catchy (I’m not questioning that), but after the million time you hear it it becomes tiresome and annoying pretty fast to listen it again over and over and over. I mean, you’re a singer, you’re supposed to have at least one album out, and you keep on rehashing ONE and ONE song only at nauseam? Misa is not one of the worst anime characters ever, in facts I’ll straight admit in my book she’s a true goddess. Hikaru is, one of the most idiotic animated characters I’ve ever seen in my life. And I’ve seen a lot of animation.
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Also, on the self-loathing part, I am wrong or Minmay is the one who bitches about herself because she didn’t do anything to stop her COUSIN (something that most people seems to forget), with whom she has an affair, into bashing the military to get away from a micloning device that Kamujiin steals like two seconds after? or the one who leaves the a theatre with (presumably) paying guests because she can’t sing seeing Hykaru going to war? or the one who LITERALLY WANTS TO DIE AFTER TWO NIGHTS SPENT IN THE MACROSS FORTRESS EATING TUNA FISH AND INSULTS HYKARU FOR BEING A PUSSY FOR NOT WANTING TO DIE? If this is not self-loathing, I don’t know what self-loathing means. This is quintessential self-loathing at its finest. Never once Misa says anything about killing herself because OMFG I’m not going to be a bride what a pitiful end etc. etc. etc.
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And on Misa being a self piting loser who can’t do anything without whining, I think you’re referring to the girl who singlehandedly tried to solve the war between the Zentradi and the humans by going to the U.N. and mediate with the Council, the same one that sent the Macross to the stars because they didn’t want to have problems with the 50.000 (officially dead) refugees, and the same girl who lost her stubborn father on the way. While on the other hand, let’s see what Minmay does: she sings, she acts, she sings again, she acts while her parents are still well and alive. I’m not saying that singing and acting don’t require any kind of skills or responsabilities, but surely we can agree that the diplomatic work and the burden of thousands of people (including aliens) on your shoulders all done without a single burnout because you don’t have that luxury (unlike Minmay) is more aggravating than writing a song for a beauty contest that by miracle becomes an hit, or starring in a kung-fu movie.
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Finished watching DYRL yesterday by late night, and I see where the criticism concerning Misa came. I have the feeling that Studio Nue thought of her as too strong as a woman and they tried to inject some self-doubt and disrespect to “nerf” her appeal, but on Hikaru being an asshole (try to steal some military equipment to take your crush on a cruise and will see what happens) she has some valid points. She also tries to help Minmay too…resulting in this one going nuts because of her feelings for Hikaru (like any mature person does). On the other hand, you should try to watch that movie again because Minmay does some pretty big self-loathing herself, saying that she hates her life (didn’t she followed what her heart wanted against her parents’ will?) and that, by the end, they’re all going to die anyway during the final battle, without giving two shits about the fate of 50.000 people and only changing her mind because Hykaru slaps her in the face. Great “energy” right there…if you think that energy means to act like a spoiled child from the very first start of the movie until the end. Kissing a stranger that you have met three minutes ago because reasons, asking if the radio of a destroyed mecha is still functioning when you see that it literally cannot do anything other than being a giant paperweight, saying that your life suck without doing nothing at all to stop being a pop idol, treating like those that use their brain to help you in something that YOURSELF TOLD EVERYONE YOU’RE WORKING ON TO MAKE PEACE WITH AN ALIEN RACE BECAUSE OF CHILDISH INFATUATION…so much energy, please stop or we’re going to explode! The only saving grace of Minmay is that she is dubbed by a talented singer and some of the songs are catchy, other than that she’s the quintessence of brattiness, immaturity and volatility at its worst and nobody, except fifteen-years old teenagers, could find her appealing in the slightest.
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The original movie poster got Misa’s loneliness spot on; the TV series more so than the film. I just read the DYRL novelization gubaba posted and now I want to hunt down the straight Japanese text… it was a surprise to see it just end abruptly with no real conclusion, the “nude” scene with Misa was kinda hot, and ironically balances out the fan-service at the beginning of the film with Minmay, and is probably unnecessary but it at least serves to build up a little sexual tension. The book depiction of Hikaru and Minmay feels kinda hollow. Conversely, being able to see Riber get at least a name check feels more “right.” Would have been nice to have the Max and Miria wedding scene which got cut from the film…. but oh well, gotta live on.
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By dubbed I mean voiced. We all know dubs in anime are useless
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I’m glad I watched Macross as well as Robotech again so I could be refreshed on Minmay, Hikaru and Misa and I’m not even going to bother with Robotech with its awful scripting that had characters talking in ways they shouldn’t have been talking to each other. all this idiotic hate I’m seeing for Minmay is coming from people that are self-projecting themselves in Hikaru’s shoes and it looks as though they are mad because the girl didn’t whore herself out to him like you see so many females do in a number of anime that are out there and that is really pathetic of anyone that thinks of her like that.
With Minmay I see a girl that was suddenly tossed into situations that were scary for her and she felt she was going to die because no one was coming to save her when she was stuck in that area of the Macross for some time and running out of food so I’m not surprised she was saying the things she was saying because she was clearly shaken up from being stuck there for so long and wanted to do something to feel better and that was pretending to get married to Hikaru. This is also the same girl that was lucky to win a contest so she can get her career she was thinking of going so of course she is going to be distracted at times which is something that actually happens in real life and that doesn’t make her an awful person that deserves this idiotic hate she is getting and people making up things about her to support Misa who was the actual terrible character that had no respect for Hikaru having feeling for Minmay and willfully came between them instead of backing off so he could focus on her which is what he should have been doing.
This girl was treated like garbage by her no good cousin and at no point in time do Hikaru stand up for her when he saw what Kaifun was making her do even when directly in front of him and she also had to deal with stupid parents that didn’t encourage her at all while Kaifun was just using her for his own needs and was probably thinking about getting her in bed after a comment he made in one episode. I also don’t blame her for not getting out of the car to stand up for Hikaru when Kaifun was being an ass to him by getting people
I don’t blame Minmay at any point for feeling bad like she was because of what she was dealing with Kaifun of was forcing her to work way too hard and he wasn’t thinking her health and well-being at all when he was acting the way he was and I hate to think what he might have been doing to her off screen.
Minmay was slowly and naturally coming around to Hikaru and it was good to see her do it and though he was also late to this he was clearly coming around to her more and it was good to see both of them kiss at the end of episode 35 because it looked as though this stupid weird love triangle that was formed was finally broken up but the final episode which was badly written comes along and does a very moronic 180 and just tosses what should have been a real relationship out the window for a woman that was terrible and lost in her own world refusing to move on for most of the series.
Misa…….This woman that people call using the buzz words “strong-willed” “smart” and “independent” put people’s lives on the line with her crying about her lost love. she damn near got Hikaru killed when he had to go and save her from the mars base and she damn near got everyone killed on the Macross when she was lost in her own little world because she didn’t activate the attack when the countdown finished and Claudia had to yell at her to do it or the Zentradi ship would have got them.
I don’t want to keep going on for too long but the character people should be hating is Misa in the TV series because of the way she was acting for most of the show and people thankfully do hate Kaifun for the piece of garbage that he is because of how he was treating Minmay.
As for movie Minmay, I also love her too and I feel for her because of how she was treated later on and I don’t blame her for getting upset and saying some irrational things after the way Hikaru acted and that’s to be expected when someone just tosses you away like a sack of garbage and you’re looking for someone to be at your side when feeling stressed like she was. She also really looked beautiful singing DYRL during the final battle and I fully agree with the person that said she really stood out compared to everyone else and Mari did a perfect job voicing her.
I can happily say while I’m still not a fan of her I don’t hate movie Misa because she wasn’t the train wreck her TV version was and I can think more of her since her BS was toned down while still being irrational a few times and she was at least thinking of Minmay’s feelings when she ran out the room.
And finally Hikaru……… I was really liking him for most of the movie but then he completely lost any respect I had for him near the end of the movie with how he acted with Minmay after meeting her again on stage. I understand him thinking she might have been killed by the zentradi and then turning to Misa for some love but it was so badly written how he broke up with Minmay and the stupid way he asked her to sing the song so suddenly after what he just said in his room which tells me he wasn’t really thinking of how he was acting with her.
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I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments. I never really understood the hate for her among the western Macross (not Robotech) fans. If anything, I think in the series she behaves like an angel with everyone even after becoming an exploited super idol, which is difficult to even believe. She still loves her family and cares about her friends. What is her biggest crime, being unsure about her feelings for Kaifun from episodes 18-27? Refusing to sing in a concert after being physically and verbally abused by her cousin/manager AND ignored by her love interest? Big deal. Even in the post-war arc, where everyone gets flanderized and the writing is far worse, she doesn’t nearly enough go out of character like Hikaru does, and is unrelated to his affair with Misa. In general she’s as nice and kindhearted as they get, even if that makes her less interesting as a character than Hikaru and Misa when they are dealing with their hangups.
On the other hand, in Do You Remember Love her behaviour is more irrational (just like everybody else’s, that movie turns Hikaru and Roy into sexist pricks and nobody raises an eyebrow) but it’s still comprehensible in the context of the plot. Her Blue Screen of Death moment near the end is pretty understandable (and no, a slap wasn’t the right way to fix it).
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At no point in the movie did Minmay ever act like a spoiled child, she was acting like a person that was looking for someone to lean on and have a good time with because the stress from doing her job and dealing with the tabloids making up things about her was getting to her. when she was alone with Hikaru she was taking the time to vent some anger which is understandable given what she does and she also admitted she got a little heated when arguing with her parents and was wondering if they were alright after what happened to the earth and that’s not something a spoiled brat would think of doing if they were lost in their own world.
Yes she kissed Hikaru but only did it after he asked her about a relationship he thought she was having with someone because of the media saying things about her so she put on a little play with him to show how celebrity romance is done and have some fun and that doesn’t make her evil for doing it.
Btw, I thought Hikaru broke his spine in that scene when I heard the breaking sound in the japanese mono while it’s not there in the japanese stereo. ^_^;
I must also remind everyone Minmay was being held by the zentradi for some time after what happened on that ship and she was probably thinking Hikaru might have been killed and felt guilty about it since she asked him to take her off the ship to see Saturn’s rings and when she saw him again after that time skip she was clearly really happy to see him again but he decided to be an ass and not show any kind of emotions for her when she hugged him and instead just looked over at Misa with that stupid look on his face.
The thought that entered my mind was why was the scene even made like that? they could have had him hug her back to show he cares for her and is glad to see she wasn’t killed like he thought she was when he was stuck on earth but instead we get this completely strange reaction that made zero sense even if he was having a relationship with Misa. damn, just hug her and show her you care and glad she’s alive and well instead of being a heartless drone.
Yes, Minmay getting upset like she did was fully understandable because of the way she was treated and I don’t blame her for it since the way those scenes played out were uncalled for and her being slapped to bring her back to her senses really was the wrong way to do it when Hikaru was the one that needed a fist in his face for the way he acted with her and for suddenly pulling out that paper with the song on it and asking her to sing it after what he just did.
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Just noticed some of my post got cut off after the posting error happened so a correction should be “I also don’t blame her for not getting out of the car to stand up for Hikaru when Kaifun was being an ass to him by getting people to rebel against him when trying to get the miclone machine.”
Something else I would like to add that so many of these moron Minmay haters keep ignoring is that she is the same person that was actually thoughtful of others and she was thinking of helping people recover from the zentradi bombing and she wasn’t out to get things for herself like Kaifun was. Misa on the other hand had to be told by Hikaru she wasn’t thinking of the lives of the soldiers that were fighting the zentradi and she didn’t understand that until she saw the dead body of a valkyrie fighter in space and I don’t recall anyone having to tell Minmay about soldier’s lives.
Even with the silly things she was sometimes doing Minmay was a legit kindhearted girl that was treated like garbage by people around her and was in the end sadly left without someone she could be with and that is what people should really be upset with while Misa the actual problem character that people are praising and acting like she’s best woman of the century got rewarded for the dumbest of reasons. at the same time I’m not impressed by that stupid Robotech II: The Sentinels garbage that showed Rick and Lisa getting married. that looked sickening to me and the bad acting and the rubbing it in the face of Minmay that she wasn’t the one getting married and people calling it a great thing left me feeling sick because of what Harmony Gold USA did to everyone especially Minmay.
Screw Harmony Gold USA for the terrible job they did with Robotech and their idiotic handling of Minmay and screw anyone that wants to keep basing their thoughts of her from watching the terrible dub and want to pretend she’s a terrible character and make up scenarios in their minds that she deserves to be left suffering and unhappy and even death when she deserves the opposite and should have been shown to find someone to be happy with and live a good life instead of being just a singer with no sign of any kind that in later Macross series that she did live a good life.
And yes, I’m upset with the creators of Macross for letting things go in that terrible direction.
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The reason people hate Minmay is specifically because she doesn’t recognize the virtue of Hikaru and develop feelings for him. This is why their kiss in episode 27 feels so empty. We know implicitly that it is a tragedy when someone doesn’t offer their romantic interest to the people who truly care for and look out for them. Hikaru continued to think about and protect Minmay through everything, as they grew apart and pushed each other away. It’s clear his heart was in the right place, and we know that as the audience. That’s why we despise Minmay: Because we know based on the facts that she has misjudged his quality as a potential mate. We’ve witnessed in third person both his kindness and bravery. We might overestimate our own worth, but by the later episodes Hikaru has earned our respect through his actions. When a truly great person is rebuffed or mistreated, of course it is outrageous to us. And we know from our experiences that this is not unusual for human beings. The human capacity to do both great things and then too soon forget the kindnesses done to them is a tragedy we are unable to escape in reality. This tragedy both happens to and is committed by all of us collectively. And until we learn better ways of being and acting towards each other, we can only lament the obvious ways in which we are inadequate. In this way, our distaste for Minmay is rooted in our distaste for our own condition. Hopefully this will help people understand this phenomenon.
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Ya Hikaru is a stupid ass but their are worse guys out their in anime like the guy from Kimagure Orange Road who turns into a complete dick to one girl at the end even though he never had to guts to tell her from the beginning he was interested in Madoka.
Then their’s that one asshole Sota from Re:Creation who’ if he hadn’t been such a cowardly asshole could have prevented Setsuna’s suicide and not have everything go to shit like it did for everyone else. Fuck Sota.
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I haven’t thought about this love triangle in ages, but this analysis is completely wrong.
Watch the last few episodes again, from when Hikaru rescues Minmay from Quamzin/Khyron. Minmay abandons her singing career and basically moves in with Hikaru. They kiss over the Christmas cake Minmay makes for him. She begs him to leave the military to be with her.
It’s very clear the only things keeping them apart before that was their immaturity and busy lives.
Also, I don’t believe Minmay and Kaifun ever got romantically involved. As I recall, Kaifun kissed Minmay one time while drunk and she slapped him for it. They got their lives entangled, both as close relatives and as manager/talent, but that’s all. Anything more was just people gossiping, which Kaifun probably encouraged.
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As I said in the post, “all this changes once we get to the post-war episodes,” which would include the Christmas episode, most definitely.
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Ah, I missed that clause, sorry.
And to be clear, I completely agree with the goal of this post, that people should not hate Minmay.
I just think it’s very wrong to say Minmay wasn’t romantically interested. Her debut song was “My Boyfriend Is A Pilot”. The intent of the show writers was pretty clear.
But she wasn’t stringing him along or anything. They were just dumb kids, and their lives went in different directions.
And to be honest, the show wasn’t written all that well, in several aspects.
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That I agree with, I especially didn’t like this weird relationship stuff between Minmay and Kaifun or this forcing Misa to get between Hikaru and Minmay instead of letting them have their time together after they finally had some quiet time alone and even kissed and spent the night together in the Christmas episode.
As mentioned before a lot of the things that happened after the war (and in some cases before) ended just didn’t make any sense and left me feeling salty because it looks as though the writers just lost it especially when it came to the relationships between characters while at the same time having other characters just stick around for too long when they should have left the scene or died a long time ago.
I’m not even going to get into what was done with the movie versions of Hikaru, Minmay and Misa again since that left me feeling really bitter after what they did after all of them returned to the Macross later in the movie.
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Looks like my post didn’t go through and I can’t remember everything I wrote now. >_>
I agree about the bad writing that took place with the story since there were things going on after the war ended like Kamjin clinging on to the very end for petty reasons and Misa just being forced in between Hikaru and Minmay even though both of them kissed and had a night alone together finally in the Christmas episode.
This whole thing with Kaifun and Minmay was unnecessary too especially since both of them are related and it’s good their relationship was changed to be brother and sister in the movie instead of cousins so they can fully kill all relationship romance troubles with them.
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At the start of the series she was likeable, in the end she turned out to be a dirty incest slut fucking her own cousin who took a dump an the military and the people who protected them and saved their lives! despite all of this she still tried to organized a trio with Hikaru and Kyle.
I was 11 at that time but I perfectly understand what she was working on and what her dirty intens where. You better be careful of sluts of this kaliber, this is exactly the one religious institutions like churches warn for. She will wreck your life, give you std’s and destroys your heart because you know she is fucking with everybody. There is a reason she is depicted as a Chinese girl in a Japanese anime, the lack of morals!
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Uh oh. The incel has arrived. Time to unsub from this thread.
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“hey a guy who can’t get laid showed up. HURR I know! I’ll hate him EVEN MORE! That’ll make sure he never waxes random people with a machine gun at a K-Mart somewhere.”
(facepalm)
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“dirty incest slut.” Someone’s been looking at my search history
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Sounds like a simp
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Fascinating observation.
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